04/12/2017 01:00 PM House RESOURCES

         HJR  9-CANADIAN MINES ON TRANSBOUNDARY RIVERS                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:21:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON announced  that the  first order  of business                                                               
would be HOUSE  JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 9, Urging  the United States                                                               
government to continue  to work with the government  of Canada to                                                               
investigate  the  long-term,  region-wide downstream  effects  of                                                               
proposed  and  existing  industrial development  and  to  develop                                                               
measures  to  ensure  that  state resources  are  not  harmed  by                                                               
upstream development in British Columbia.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[Before the  committee was  CSHJR 9(FSH),  which was  read across                                                               
the floor on 4/7/17.]                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:21:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAN  ORTIZ, Alaska  State Legislature,  sponsor of                                                               
HJR  9,  recalled U.S.  Senator  Dan  Sullivan's address  to  the                                                               
[Alaska  State  Legislature] on  the  value  of Alaska's  fishing                                                               
industry to  its economy, the  fishing industry's prospects  as a                                                               
renewable  resource,   and  the  importance  of   protecting  and                                                               
enhancing said resource.  House  Joint Resolution 9 would declare                                                               
that the legislature support federal  measures to ensure Alaskans                                                               
have their  voices heard  regarding transboundary  mining issues.                                                               
As the [Province of British  Columbia (B.C.), Canada] expands its                                                               
mining industry, Alaskans deserve  to know how mining development                                                               
affects  transboundary   rivers  and,   if  necessary,   to  have                                                               
protective    measures    to   protect    Alaska's    watersheds.                                                               
Representative  Ortiz explained  that  currently,  when a  [spill                                                               
damaging  to  Alaska's  fishing industry  occurs  within  another                                                               
jurisdiction's   boundaries],  there   are  no   legally  binding                                                               
protections or  financial assurances; in fact,  the [Statement of                                                               
Cooperation on the Protection of  Transboundary Waters (SOC)] and                                                               
"the  memorandum of  understanding"  between the  state and  B.C.                                                               
call   for   shared   information,  monitoring,   and   potential                                                               
cooperation  in  regard  to  mining.     However,  there  are  no                                                               
protective assurances [for  reclamation] in an event  such as the                                                               
[Mount   Polley  tailings   dam  breach   in  B.C.   on  8/4/14].                                                               
Therefore, HJR  9 urges the  federal government to  investigate -                                                               
with  the  government  of  Canada -  the  downstream  effects  of                                                               
industrial  development, and  to develop  measures to  ensure the                                                               
safety of  Alaska's resources.  Representative  Ortiz related the                                                               
resolution  is  supported  by  thousands   of  Alaskans  and  the                                                               
governor  and lieutenant  governor, and  that federal  reforms on                                                               
this issue  are being touted  by U.S. Senator Lisa  Murkowski and                                                               
Senator Sullivan.   He urged  for the committee's support  of HJR
.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:25:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  asked whether  the state currently  has the                                                               
capacity to manage this issue through its existing departments.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ responded  that  the  Alaska Department  of                                                               
Fish & Game (ADFG) and  the Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                               
have  the ability  to  monitor waters  within  the boundaries  of                                                               
Alaska;  however, the  departments have  no authority  to monitor                                                               
activities  upstream,   or  the  potential  impacts   of  mining.                                                               
Further, the  state and B.  Co. lack authority to  sign financial                                                               
agreements,  which  must  be entered  into  by  their  respective                                                               
federal governments.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  was encouraged  by the recent  SOC executed                                                               
between  Alaska  and  B.C., facilitated  by  Lieutenant  Governor                                                               
Mallott and  [British Columbia's  Minister of Energy  and Mines].                                                               
He  noted his  reluctance to  involve the  federal government  in                                                               
issues the state  could resolve independently, although  HJR 9 is                                                               
"well-intended."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ORTIZ  agreed solving  problems at local  or state                                                               
levels is  best; however,  issues involving  transboundary waters                                                               
must be  addressed at federal  government levels, and  he pointed                                                               
out  Senators Sullivan  and Lisa  Murkowski have  called for  the                                                               
proposed resolution.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WESTLAKE shared  Representative Birch's  concern,                                                               
and asked  whether any mining  companies [in Alaska or  B.C.] are                                                               
working with each  other on these issues, or  if Canadian fishing                                                               
and mining industries are working together.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ  expressed   certainty  that  interests  of                                                               
Canadian fisherman  have been heard,  and affected  Tribal groups                                                               
have voiced their concerns to  the B.C. [provincial] and Canadian                                                               
federal  governments.   He  was  unsure  as to  whether  American                                                               
mining companies are in contact with Canadian mining companies.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:31:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE  referred to  [the Pacific  Salmon Treaty                                                               
of 1985]  between the  U.S. and  the Canadian  federal government                                                               
pertaining to salmon  in the Yukon River that  traverse Alaska on                                                               
their way  to its headwaters, and  said, "So in some  instances -                                                               
I'm loath to  say this - the federal government  can actually get                                                               
something right every once in a while."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND directed  attention to  a map  entitled,                                                               
"State  of Alaska  Trans -  Boundary Watersheds  Southeast Alaska                                                               
and British Columbia," and asked  whether the Unuk, Stikine, Taku                                                               
Alsek, and Chilkat rivers have  headwaters in Canada and outfalls                                                               
in Alaska.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ said  the  Taku, Stikine,  and Unuk  rivers                                                               
drain into Alaska waters.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE  asked whether the resolution  applies to                                                               
only three watersheds.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ORTIZ  said  HJR  9  addresses  issues  that  may                                                               
develop from the  mining projects at the headwaters  of the Taku,                                                               
Stikine, and  Unuk rivers.   He opined the resolution  would have                                                               
ramifications on  related issues; however, the  resolution is not                                                               
antimining,  but  is  pro-economic  and pro-fishing.    In  fact,                                                               
different types of proposed mines  have plans for production that                                                               
appear  to be  safer  and economically  sound,  and thereby  have                                                               
earned his support.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:35:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opened [invited] testimony.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:35:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KIRSTEN   SHELTON-WALKER,   Project  Manager,   McDowell   Group,                                                               
provided  a PowerPoint  presentation entitled,  "Economic Impacts                                                               
of Southeast Alaska Transboundary  Watersheds."  She informed the                                                               
committee McDowell Group is an  economic consultant firm that was                                                               
tasked  by SalmonState,  an initiative  with  offices in  Juneau,                                                               
Anchorage,  and  Homer,  to  conduct   an  economic  analysis  of                                                               
Southeast  Alaska's  transboundary  watersheds.   McDowell  Group                                                               
studied  the Taku,  Stikine,  and Unuk  rivers,  and completed  a                                                               
preliminary analysis  of the Nass  River and Skeena  River, which                                                               
do not  flow into Southeast,  but salmon therein do  migrate into                                                               
Alaska waters [slide  2].  She said economic  impacts include job                                                               
and labor  income generated from businesses  operating within the                                                               
watersheds,  spending by  watershed-related businesses,  spending                                                               
by  employees, visitor  spending, tax  benefits for  communities,                                                               
and  the present  value  of  future benefits  [slide  3].   River                                                               
economics  are activities  such  as recreation  and fishing,  the                                                               
visitor  industry, and  others [slide  4].   For  the Taku  River                                                               
watershed, commercial salmon  fisheries, sport fishing, visitors,                                                               
and tax  revenue totaled  annual spending  of $33  million, labor                                                               
income of  about $13 million,  average annual employment  was 260                                                               
jobs,  and a  thirty-year present  value was  $650 million.   Ms.                                                               
Shelton-Walker  explained present  value  of  future benefits  is                                                               
based on resources kept intact  in perpetuity, such as commercial                                                               
fishing [slides 5  and 6].  For the Stikine  River watershed, the                                                               
total annual  spending was  about $13  million, labor  income was                                                               
almost $6  million, average annual  employment was 117  jobs, and                                                               
thirty-year  present value  was $250  million [slides  7 and  8].                                                               
For  the Unuk  River watershed,  total annual  spending was  $2.5                                                               
million,   labor  income   was  $1.2   million,  average   annual                                                               
employment was  24 jobs,  and thirty-year  present value  was $50                                                               
million [slides 9 and  10].  Slide 11 was a  summary of the total                                                               
economic impacts of  all three watersheds as follows:   400 jobs,                                                               
labor income of $20 million,  and $48 million in economic impact.                                                               
Ms.  Shelton-Walker concluded  that with  appropriate management,                                                               
Southeast  Alaska's transboundary  watersheds -  when combined  -                                                               
generate economic benefits in a  thirty-year period of just under                                                               
$1 billion,  and a fifty-year  period present value of  over $1.2                                                               
billion [slide 12].                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:40:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  referred to  the previously  identified map                                                               
and asked  whether the foregoing economic  assessment encompasses                                                               
the entire  watershed, or just  the watershed "that  falls within                                                               
the State of Alaska and U.S. territory."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. SHELTON-WALKER said  the study looked at  the U.S. boundaries                                                               
of the watershed within Alaska.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH pointed out 90-95  percent of the Taku River                                                               
watershed is in Canada, as is  at least 95 percent of the Stikine                                                               
River watershed.   A watershed does  not stop at a  boundary, and                                                               
the assessment  is only of the  economic impact on the  5 percent                                                               
of the watershed lying within the U.S.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SHELTON-WALKER  stated  the  study was  of  the  impacts  on                                                               
Southeast  Alaska,  and  McDowell   Group  did  not  measure  any                                                               
economic impact outside of the state or within Canada.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   BIRCH   said   watershed  boundaries   are   not                                                               
arbitrary,  but are  well-defined  by  geography and  topography.                                                               
Based  on his  background in  mining engineering,  Representative                                                               
Birch expressed  his concern that  the study presented is  of the                                                               
economic impact  on a  series of  transboundary rivers  that does                                                               
not reflect the economic opportunities  on the other side [of the                                                               
national boundary], which is a  shortsighted and narrow focus; in                                                               
fact,  what is  presented is  not a  full picture,  and committee                                                               
deliberations  should  not  ignore  the  economic  impact  of  95                                                               
percent of the Stikine River watershed.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON asked whether  Alaska should be concerned with                                                               
Canada's economic welfare.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  characterized Alaska and Canada  as "joined                                                               
at  the  hip,"  which  is why  Alaska's  lieutenant  governor  is                                                               
engaged  in  conversation with  Canadian  officials.   He  opined                                                               
measuring economic  assessment, divorced from that  of Canada, is                                                               
unrealistic and without understanding that  the bulk of the river                                                               
systems lie in Canada.   He suggested the report should indicate,                                                               
"This  only represents  5  percent of  the  watershed that,  that                                                               
resides in the U.S."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  opined the close relationship  between Alaska                                                               
and Canada is the reason for the resolution.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SHELTON-WALKER clarified  that if  in any  of the  watershed                                                               
economic activities,  such as  mining operations,  were occurring                                                               
that employed  Alaskans, or that benefitted  Alaskans, that value                                                               
would  have been  part of  the  analysis; any  activity within  a                                                               
watershed on either side of  the boundary was taken into account.                                                               
Not reported was the economic impact on Canada.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH stressed the  report should clearly indicate                                                               
that no  economic impacts on  Canada were  reported - which  is a                                                               
significant shortcoming  if the  goal is to  weigh the  merits of                                                               
the watersheds.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE asked what  is similar, or dissimilar, in                                                               
comparing Canadian and American  mining discharge permits related                                                               
to  pollution issues.    He restated  his  question, adding  that                                                               
mining  discharge permits  [regulate]  affluency  and asked,  "Is                                                               
there something  on the  Canadian side that  we're unaware  of or                                                               
that we've got  a major concern about that could  hurt my friends                                                               
in  the  fishing industry?    Is  there something  that  prompted                                                               
this?"                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:46:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAROLINE  HAMP, Staff,  Representative  Dan  Ortiz, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,   responded  that   the  permitting   and  financial                                                               
assurances required of mines differ between Canada and the U.S.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO  inquired  as  to  whether  side-by-side                                                               
comparisons are available.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HAMP  directed  attention   to  documents  provided  in  the                                                               
committee  packet  [entitled,  "Canadian Mines  on  Transboundary                                                               
Rivers," and dated 3/16/17, and  entitled, "Deficiencies in Post-                                                               
Mt. Polley  Reclamation Changes:   BC Financial Surety  for Mines                                                               
BC Mine Reclamation  Code Changes] that are  related to financial                                                               
assurances and mining permits.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:49:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JILL  WEITZ, spokesperson,  Salmon Beyond  Borders, informed  the                                                               
committee  she previously  served as  a statewide  compliance and                                                               
enforcement  officer for  the Division  of  Water, Department  of                                                               
Environmental   Conservation.      She  said   robust   watershed                                                               
management  is  in  response to  concerns  in  Southeast  Alaska.                                                               
Salmon Beyond  Boards is an  initiative driven by  commercial and                                                               
sport  fishing gear  groups, concerned  citizens, municipalities,                                                               
conservation organizations,  business owners, and  tour operators                                                               
throughout the  region, including  from B.C.   Members  of Salmon                                                               
Beyond  Borders have  been working  for the  past three  years to                                                               
defend and sustain  the Taku, Stikine, and  Unuk river watersheds                                                               
which provide  culture and history,  and contribute  to Southeast                                                               
Alaska's annual  billion-dollar commercial fisheries  and tourism                                                               
industries.  She  expressed the support of  Salmon Beyond Borders                                                               
for HJR 9.  More  than ten large-scale, open-pit, and underground                                                               
mines  are in  development in  the watersheds  flowing from  B.C.                                                               
that create  the entire  spawning habitat in  Alaska.   The three                                                               
rivers   provide  livelihoods   in  communities   and  there   is                                                               
widespread  support  for  HJR  9 from  Alaskans  and  the  Alaska                                                               
congressional  delegation.   Ms.  Weitz  said  the Salmon  Beyond                                                               
Borders  campaign appreciates  the administration's  attention to                                                               
this   matter;   however,   the  2015   amended   memorandum   of                                                               
understanding (MOU) and the 2016  SOC between Alaska and B.C. are                                                               
nonbinding  voluntary   agreements  that   do  not   possess  the                                                               
authority to  address international  disputes.  In  addition, the                                                               
SOC does not provide federal commitments or funding.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  observed that the aforementioned  ten mines                                                               
in development  are not reflected  in the economic  impact report                                                               
on the watersheds, but they  would provide many jobs and economic                                                               
potential.  He asked for their locations.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WEITZ said  the  mines  can be  found  on  the "B.C.  mining                                                               
industry map" which shows an  array of underground, open-pit, and                                                               
coal projects.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:54:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS ZIMMER,  Alaska Campaign Director, Rivers  Without Borders,                                                               
informed  the  committee he  has  been  working on  transboundary                                                               
river issues  for 16 years.   Mr.  Zimmer stated his  support for                                                               
HJR 9,  and said  the resolution  addresses not  an environmental                                                               
issue, but is an effort to  protect Alaska jobs and resource from                                                               
cross-border threats - an issue  that has united residents across                                                               
the region.   Further, the issue  is not how well  Alaska manages                                                               
its  resources,  but  the  resolution   seeks  to  ensure  Alaska                                                               
resources are not  harmed by activities across  the border, where                                                               
Alaska state  agencies do not  have authority.  In  fact, neither                                                               
Alaska  nor   B.C.  have  exclusive  jurisdiction   for  resource                                                               
management,  their   respective  federal  governments   hold  the                                                               
primary  role   for  transboundary  issues.     Involved  are  an                                                               
international   border,   several  sovereign   governments,   and                                                               
international treaties, all  of which make this  a federal issue.                                                               
He encouraged use of the  [Boundary Waters Treaty of 1909 (BWT)],                                                               
in conjunction with the aforementioned  SOC, and turned attention                                                               
to the  history of the Tulsequah  Chief mine.  Twenty  years ago,                                                               
Alaska fisherman  called for  the International  Joint Commission                                                               
authorized by  the BWT to  address the Tulsequah Chief  mine that                                                               
was abandoned in 1957 with  no reclamation measures.  Inspections                                                               
at the site have found  acid mine drainage and permit violations;                                                               
however, the B.C. [government] continues  to wait for a new owner                                                               
to clean  up the  mine, and  claims there  is no  emergency, even                                                               
though  toxic  mine  discharge continues  to  drain  into  salmon                                                               
habitat  and  there  is  no  commitment to  clean  up  the  site.                                                               
Although B.C. Minister of Energy  and Mines Bill Bennett promised                                                               
to  clean  up  the  mine  in 2015,  there  has  been  no  result,                                                               
indicating that  B.C. water quality  standards are  not enforced,                                                               
except in  an emergency.  Mr.  Zimmer opined bonding in  the B.C.                                                               
mining industry  is inadequate if a  company declares bankruptcy,                                                               
and  there  is  weak  enforcement  of  environmental  laws,  thus                                                               
binding  and enforceable  protections are  needed.   He concluded                                                               
that a  coordinated state  and federal  approach -  utilizing the                                                               
BWT and the SOC - is best.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:57:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON   asked  whether  Mr.  Zimmer   believed  the                                                               
Canadian government is not enforcing its federal laws.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ZIMMER  answered that  the  Canadian  Federal Fisheries  Act                                                               
prevents deleterious substances from  entering salmon habitat and                                                               
although  inspections  have   found  deleterious  substances  are                                                               
entering salmon  habitat, no enforcement  action has  been taken.                                                               
Furthermore,  B.C.  is  not enforcing  its  mine  permits,  which                                                               
direct  both [previous  owners of  the Tulsequah  Chief mine]  to                                                               
stop the discharge.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER   stated  a  resolution  to   [the  U.S.                                                               
secretary of  state and the  Alaska congressional  delegation] is                                                               
not a very powerful tool.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE  recalled testimony that there  are 11 to                                                               
12 operating mines,  and asked whether there  are other abandoned                                                               
mines.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ZIMMER  clarified that  there  are  11  to 12  mines  either                                                               
operating  or  under development  in  this  region.   The  Johnny                                                               
Mountain mine is  another abandoned mine that  was not reclaimed;                                                               
material  was burned  and  buried at  the site,  and  there is  a                                                               
potential  for  acid  drainage.    He  warned  that  the  current                                                               
expansion of mining warrants federal authority.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH  expressed  his  support  for  the  fishing                                                               
industry.  He suggested the  mining industry should be engaged in                                                               
this issue as - worldwide -  the mining industry is compelled and                                                               
interested  in,   "...  doing  the   right  thing  by   the,  the                                                               
community."    Furthermore,  it   is  more  constructive  for  an                                                               
economic  impact report  to  include all  the  businesses in  the                                                               
studied watersheds, and to involve  all the interested parties in                                                               
Canada and Alaska.  Representative  Birch acknowledged that mines                                                               
that were  operated in the  '50s and  earlier need to  be cleaned                                                               
up.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:03:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH asked  whether  the  standards for  mining                                                               
permitting are  more, or less,  strict in Alaska, as  compared to                                                               
Canada.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. ZIMMER  advised in  Alaska, a mining  company is  required to                                                               
post a  full bond to  reclaim the proposed mine  before beginning                                                               
operations.   Canada uses a  risk-based approach, and  the mining                                                               
company posts a  percentage - or a corporate guarantee  - thus if                                                               
the company is  bankrupt, the bond is inadequate and  there is no                                                               
recourse.   Also in  Alaska, mixing zones  in salmon  habitat are                                                               
prohibited; in B.C., for example, the proposed Kerr-Sulphurets-                                                                 
Mitchell (KSM) Project would use the  Unuk River from the mine to                                                               
the border  as a mixing zone.   He opined in  general, because of                                                               
the  bonding  requirement  and mixing  zone  prohibition,  Alaska                                                               
standards  are stronger;  however, related  to other  activities,                                                               
"It really becomes a mixed bag, where it kind of evens out ...."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND  inquired  as   to  how  Rivers  Without                                                               
Borders responded  to the  [Mount Polley  tailings dam  breach in                                                               
B.C. on 8/4/14].                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:05:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ZIMMER  recalled the Mount  Polley mine tailings  dam failure                                                               
in  August 2014,  which sent  billions of  gallons of  mine waste                                                               
downstream into  salmon habitat,  was notice to  his organization                                                               
that tailings dams - in many  cases - are not constructed to last                                                               
forever.  Also,  the failure demonstrated that  mixing water with                                                               
tailings meant the contaminants  were carried downstream; without                                                               
water,  the  dam   failure  would  have  resulted   in  "a  small                                                               
landslide."  In response to  Mount Polley, Mr. Zimmer said Rivers                                                               
Without  Borders  instigated  studies   with  a  focus  on  major                                                               
proposed  mines that  would use  large tailings  dams mixed  with                                                               
water,  and  supports  "dry  stack"  technology  which  puts  dry                                                               
tailings  behind  a  dam.     Also,  Rivers  Without  Borders  is                                                               
searching for a better design  for building tailings dams, and is                                                               
analyzing B.C.'s response to the Mount Polley dam failure.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:07:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND  referred to  a letter [addressed  to the                                                               
Honorable  John  Kerry,  Secretary,  U.S.  Department  of  State,                                                               
signed  by   the  Alaska  congressional  delegation,   and  dated                                                               
5/12/16] and asked  whether the actions requested  therein, if in                                                               
effect in B.C., would have affected the Mount Polley "outcome."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. ZIMMER  said, "It very well  may have, because in  the, there                                                               
were a number of failures  made in the construction and operation                                                               
of that dam,  and the maintenance of it."   For example, too much                                                               
water was introduced,  the dam was not  constructed properly, and                                                               
the dam  was constructed on  a weak  layer of glacial  till soil.                                                               
More   oversight  and   involvement  by   Alaska  in   permitting                                                               
processes,  and  federal  engagement,   may  have  prevented  the                                                               
failure at Mount Polley.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:09:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opened public testimony on HJR 9.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:09:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JERRY MCCUNE,  President, United Fisherman of  Alaska (UFA), said                                                               
the  Southeast members  of  UFA are  very  concerned about  "what                                                               
could happen on  our side of the border."   Jobs are important in                                                               
Canada and Alaska, and UFA  urges the Canadian federal government                                                               
to consider better safeguards for new  mines which - if they fail                                                               
- can  negatively affect  jobs in  Canada and  Alaska.   He noted                                                               
members  of UFA  have been  in touch  with mining  companies, and                                                               
look  at each  [mining]  project individually  in  order to  open                                                               
dialogue  between  jurisdictions.    Mr. McCune  pointed  out  an                                                               
abandoned mine located in the  important Taku River watershed has                                                               
been  leaking   for  years  without  action   from  the  Canadian                                                               
government, and said members of UFA support the resolution.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:11:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE SATRE,  Manager of Government  and Community  Affairs, Hecla                                                               
Greens Creek  Mine, President, The  Council of  Alaska Producers,                                                               
and Vice President,  Alaska Miners Association (AMA),  said he is                                                               
a lifelong  Southeast Alaskan who  is a  member of the  [State of                                                               
Alaska Transboundary  Working Group] representing AMA,  and he is                                                               
speaking  on behalf  of  AMA.   Mr. Satre  said  contrary to  the                                                               
resolution, industrial development  of the transboundary [region]                                                               
is not  experiencing unprecedented  rapid expansion, as  one mine                                                               
has been  opened, one  is under construction,  and others  are in                                                               
inactive or exploration status.   Although AMA supports Alaskans'                                                               
interest  in upstream  development  located  in another  country,                                                               
asking for  involvement by  the federal  government is  a fallacy                                                               
when the existing  system is working.  He urged  the committee to                                                               
amend  the  resolution to  support  the  MOU  and SOC  signed  by                                                               
Governor   Walker  and   Lieutenant  Governor   Mallott,  because                                                               
dismissing  these agreements  as  nonbinding sends  a message  to                                                               
B.C. that "we don't want to  engage."  Furthermore, even prior to                                                               
the  MOU  and  SOC,  Alaska  permitting  agencies  were  able  to                                                               
facilitate permitting  changes in the Canadian  process, and will                                                               
continue to do  so.  He said supporting the  MOU and SOC furthers                                                               
the Alaska  congressional delegation as  it seeks to  protect the                                                               
state's  resources.    Mr.  Satre also  referred  to  the  letter                                                               
[addressed  to   the  Honorable   John  Kerry,   Secretary,  U.S.                                                               
Department  of   State,  signed   by  the   Alaska  congressional                                                               
delegation,  and dated  5/12/16]  and advised  four  of the  five                                                               
requests therein are fulfilled by  the MOU and SOC; the remaining                                                               
request relates to the  International Joint Commission authorized                                                               
by  the BWT,  and  he opined  said joint  commission  is "a  body                                                               
that's outlived its usefulness."  He remarked:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     We have the laws in place  on both sides of the border,                                                                    
     in fact,  we have  a treaty in  place that  says, "Thou                                                                    
     shall  not  pollute  waters   across  borders,"  so  we                                                                    
     already have  the means to  deal with the  issues here.                                                                    
     ...  It's  important  that  the  legislature  make  its                                                                    
     opinion known  on issues like the  transboundary.  It's                                                                    
     important that  legacy issues like Tulsequah  Chief are                                                                    
     dealt with. ... However,  we still believe this version                                                                    
     of HJR  9 has multiple  problems and  needs significant                                                                    
     amendments, but  we think we  can amend it and  move it                                                                    
     forward with everybody supporting it.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[HJR 9 was held over.]